Tuesday, January 18, 2011

Names of Prophets and their Successors (عليهم السلام) - Hadeeth is Da`eef (weak)

Here is a hadeeth that lists the names of the Prophets (عليهم السلام) and their successors (عليهم السلام). This hadeeth is da`eef (weak) per isnaad not only because there is a majhool narrator (Muqaatil bin Sulaymaan), but because the Hadeeth is mursal (disconnected), the rest of the narrators in the chain are thiqaat (pl. thiqah).

NOTE: I have attempted to transliterate the names of Prophets (عليهم السلام) as best as I can, as these names do not have the harakas, so the spelling is not official.

(Taken from my personal copy of Al-Sadooq’s Amaalee, Majlis #63, pg. 293-294, h# 3)
(Click to enlarge)

حدثنا محمد بن موسى بن المتوكل ره قال حدثنا عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري قال حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى عن الحسن بن محبوب عن مقاتل بن سليمان عن أبي عبد الله الصادق ع

 قال قال رسول الله ص أنا سيد النبيين و وصيي سيد الوصيين و أوصيائي سادة الأوصياء

إن آدم ع سأل الله عز و جل أن يجعل له وصيا صالحا فأوحى الله عز و جل إليه أني أكرمت الأنبياء بالنبوة ثم اخترت خلقي و جعلت خيارهم الأوصياء ثم أوحى الله عز و جل إليه يا آدم أوص إلى شيث فأوصى آدم إلى شيث

و هو هبة الله بن آدم و أوصى شيث إلى ابنه شبان و هو ابن نزلة الحوراء التي أنزلها الله على آدم من الجنة فزوجها ابنه شيثا

و أوصى شبان إلى مجلث
و أوصى مجلث إلى محوق
و أوصى محوق إلى غثميشا [عثميشا]
و أوصى غثميشا إلى أخنوخ و هو إدريس النبي ع
و أوصى إدريس إلى ناحور
و دفعها ناحور إلى نوح النبي ع
و أوصى نوح إلى سام
و أوصى سام إلى عثامر
و أوصى عثامر إلى برعيثاشا [برعيثاثا]
و أوصى برعيثاشا إلى يافث
و أوصى يافث إلى برة
و أوصى برة إلى جفسية [جفيسة]
و أوصى جفسية إلى عمران
و دفعها عمران إلى إبراهيم خليل الرحمن ع
و أوصى إبراهيم إلى ابنه إسماعيل
و أوصى إسماعيل إلى إسحاق
و أوصى إسحاق إلى يعقوب
و أوصى يعقوب إلى يوسف
و أوصى يوسف إلى بثرياء
و أوصى بثرياء إلى شعيب ع
و دفعها شعيب إلى موسى بن عمران
و أوصى موسى بن عمران إلى يوشع بن نون
و أوصى يوشع بن نون إلى داود ع
و أوصى داود ع إلى سليمان
و أوصى سليمان إلى آصف بن برخيا
و أوصى آصف بن برخيا إلى زكريا
و دفعها زكريا إلى عيسى ابن مريم
و أوصى عيسى إلى شمعون بن حمون الصفا
و أوصى شمعون إلى يحيى بن زكريا
و أوصى يحيى بن زكريا إلى منذر
و أوصى منذر إلى سليمة
و أوصى سليمة إلى بردة

ثم قال رسول الله ص و دفعها إلي بردة و أنا أدفعها إليك يا علي و أنت تدفعها إلى وصيك و يدفعها وصيك إلى أوصيائك من ولدك واحدا بعد واحد حتى يدفع إلى خير أهل الأرض بعدك و لتكفرن بك الأمة و لتختلفن عليك اختلافا شديدا الثابت عليك كالمقيم معي و الشاذ عنك في النار و النار مثوى للكافرين

From Abee `Abd Allaah Al-Saadiq (عليه السلام) said the Messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said:

 “I am the master of the prophets; my successors is the master of successors; and his successors are the masters of the successors.

That Adam asked Allaah (عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ) to make for him a righteous successor so Allaah (عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ) revealed to him, “I honored the prophets with prophethood, and I chose the best of my creations as their successors. O Adam! Make Sheeth your successor. So he appointed Sheeth as his successor.

And Sheeth was a gift from Allaah (عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ), and Sheeth appointed his son Shabbaan as his successor. He (Shabbaan) is from the descent of a Hooree that Allaah (عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ) sent to Adam from Jannah (heaven) and he married her to his son, Sheeth.

And Shabbaat appointed Mujallath as his successor;
And Mujallath appointed Mahqooq as his successor;
And Mahqooq appointed Ghuthmayshaa [`Uthmayshaa] as his successor;
And Ghuthmayshaa appointed Akhnookh, and he is the Prophet Idrees (عليه السلام) as his successor;
And Idrees appointed NaaHoor as his successor;
And NaaHoor paid (appointed) Prophet NooH (عليه السلام) as his successor;
And NooH appointed Saam as his successor;
And Saam appointed `Athaamir as his successor;
And `Athaamir appointed Bar`aythaashaa [Bar`aythaathaa] as his successor;
And Bar`aythaashaa [Bar`aythaatha] appointed Yaafith as his successor;
And Yaafith appointed Barrah as his successor;
And Barrah appointed Jafasayyah [Jafeesah] as his successor;
And Jafasayyah [Jafeesah] appointed `Imraan as his successor;
And `Imraan paid (appointed) Ibraaheem Khaleel of Allaah (عليه السلام) as his successor;
And Ibraaheem appointed Ismaa`eel as his successor;
And Ismaa`eel appointed IsHaaq as his successor;
And IsHaaq appointed Ya`qoob as his successor;
And Ya`qoob appointed Yoosuf as his successor;
And Yoosuf appointed Bathariyyaa’ as his successor;
And Bathariyyaa’ appointed Shu`ayb as his successor;
And Shu`ayb paid (appointed) Moosa bin `Imraan (عليه السلام) as his successor;
And Moosa bin `Imraan (عليه السلام) appointed Yoosha` bin Noon as his successor;
And Yoosha` bin Noon appointed Dawood as his successor;
And Dawood appointed Sulaymaan as his successor;
And Sulaymaan appointed AaSif bin Barkhiyyah as his successor;
And AaSif bin Barkhiyyah appointed Zakariyyah as his successor;
And Zakariyyah paid (appointed) `Eesa bin Maryam (عليه السلام) as his successor;
And `Eesa bin Maryam (عليه السلام) appointed Sham`oon bin Hamoon Al-Saffaa as his successor;
And Sham`oon appointed YaHya bin Zakariyyah as his successor;
and YaHya bin Zakariyyah appointed Mundhir as his succesor
And Mundhir appointed Sulaymah as his successor;
And Sulaymah appointed Bardah as his successor;

Then the messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said: “And I was appointed by Bardah. O `Alee, and I will appoint you. And you will appoint the successors after you from your sons and they will appoint their sons one after another until it gets to the best of the people of earth after you. And the ummah will disbelieve in you, and there will be differences about you, great differences. (Those who) stay firm with you will reside with me (in heaven), and the odd (other people) from you will be in the fire, and the fire is for the disbelievers.”

1.     Al-Sadooq, Man Laa YaHDuruh Al-Faqeeh, vol. 4, pg. 174 – 175, hadeeth # 5404
2.     Al-Sadooq, Al-Amaalee, Majlis # 63, pg. 402 – 404, hadeeth # 3
3.     Al-Sadooq, Kamaal Al-Deen, vol. 1, ch. 22, pg. 211 – 213, hadeeth # 1

In Al-Sadooq’s book Kamaal Al-Deen, this hadeeth goes through a different isnaad at the beginning, through many more narrators all of whom are thiqaat

حدثنا محمد بن الحسن بن أحمد بن الوليد رضي الله عنه قال حدثنا محمد بن الحسن الصفار و سعد بن عبد الله و عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري جميعا قالوا حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى و محمد بن الحسين بن أبي الخطاب و الهيثم بن أبي مسروق النهدي و إبراهيم بن هاشم عن الحسن بن محبوب السراد عن مقاتل بن سليمان عن أبي عبد الله ع قال قال رسول الله ص


  1. C'mon guys, Yahya ibn Zakariyyah coming after Shamoun the Successor of 'Eesa (AS).

    This contradicts well known dirayah, therefore I prefer the Dirayah over the Riwayah and reject it. Secondly Muqatil ibn Sulayman is known for Isra'iliyyat so we reject him even if Sadooq didn't.

  2. The content doesn't make any sense & anachronistic. For example, just consider the years between Yusha' bin Nun (Yehoshua' ben Nun) & Musa & also Ashif to Zakariyya. Moreover, Yahya bin Zakariyya was already murdered even before Isa was taken up, right?
    In this light & the fact that it contained a majhul narrator which as the commenter said above was known as Israiliyyat, the authenticity of this narration is seriously doubtful

  3. Salaamun `Alaykum Brothers,

    I think you guys haven't read the tradition fully, and if you did, then you should know the beliefs of the Sunnis and the Jews and Christians. This cannot be an Israa`iliyyah or Sunni tradition for many reasons.

    1.) This is a hadeeth contains a unique shee`ah beliefs that isn't found in the Sunnis and Christians faith, which is of Allaah (SWT) sending the "Hooree" for Adam's son for them to procreate. Both Sunnis and Jews&Christians beliefs the brothers and sister procreated amongst themselves. So just by that alone you can tell this is a unique shee`ah hadeeth not taken from either sect.

    2.) Also, some of the successorships of these Prophets are unique to the Shee`ah faith, that neither Sunni nor the Jews& Christians have. It cannot be sunni because if you look at the end of the hadeeth it clearly states the wilaayah of the Imaams after Ahl Al-Bayt (AS).

    3.) Muqaatil bin Sulaymaan is not an `Aamee (Sunni) according to our books, instead he is a Zaydi of the Batriyyah sect. (See: Rijaal Al-Toosi, pg. 146; Al-Kashee's Rijaal, pg. 390; Al-Khoei's Mu`jam, vol. 18, pg. 311, person # 12603).

    4.) Also, if you look at the aHaadeeth of Muqaatil, majority of them are pro-Ahl Al-Bayt.

    So rejecting this hadeeth because it isn't "logical" or "it doesn't make sense" is a bold move. Unless you can find a khabar that contradictions this Hadeeth with more SaHeeH isnaad then rejecting this hadeeth is out of the question, especially since our classical scholars have accepted this hadeeth.

  4. I did not know where to put it. But I have a request, actually two.
    1. Can you make a post about Istikhara, its method, when should it be done etc.
    2. And also duas for increase in sustenance.

    JazakAllah brother.

  5. 1- one aspect of the hadith may not be taken from opposing sects and religions, fine. However that is not relevant, the successorship is again probably the whims of Muqatil mixed with that which he remembered from Jews and Christians. He does this very often in his tafseer work.

    2- Sure, however you assume that Jews and Christians were monolithic in this time and region and that Muqatil's memory didnt cause him to mix this all up.

    3- Of course not, just an Anthropomorphising Batri Zaydi. Hardly the qualifications needed for this.

    4- This is the logic of those who narrate the Fadhail reports of Sufis, hardly something you wish to join in.

    Logic is not the criteria here, the criteria is established history (Dirayah) namely did Yahya precede 'Eesa and we say yes definitely he did.

    Accepting this report would be akin to having a report stating that Asif ibn Barkiyyah was succeeded by Musa (AS). Which we would know is plain false.

    Lastly, I don't need to accept Muqaatil as reliable he was a batri.

  6. عقيدة غريبة من هو شمعون بن حمون وما صلته مع سيدنا عيسى عليه السلام
    وعندي أسئله كثيرة اليك منها ؟
    كم عدد الأنبياء والرسل وهل هم حجه ؟
    هل تفيدنا وتكلمنا عن سليمه أو برده ؟
    من هو الحجه بعد المهدي المنتظر ؟؟

    يكفي ولدى أسئله كثيرة ونرجو من جميع الروافض المشاركة فالمشرقي لا يعي ما يقول ويطلب مساعدتكم فأين الصدري والمياحي وجميع روافض العالم !!!!!

    من هو الحجه قبل زمن سيدنا محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم ؟؟؟؟
    ومن هو الحجه بعد الأمام المنتظر المزعوم ؟؟؟؟

  7. Obviously the over heated retard above doesn't realise that we are conversing in english for a reason as its our conventional language.

  8. Brother Anonymous, please find me a khabar from Shee`ah books with a SaHeeH isnaad and opinion of scholars that contradict anything from this hadeeth, if not it'll be pure dhann (speculation).

  9. Subhan Allah,

    so this is now your method of adoption, you don't see the possibility that al-Saduq (AR) made a mistake in stating this riwayat was Sahih like he did with the 17,000 verses hadith in his book stipulating the Aqeedah of the Imamiyyah.

    How about YOU on the other hand give me a Khabar with a Saheeh isnaad stating this is the list of Awsiyah, note if you accept al-Saduq (AR) on this, I will hold you to accept the riwayats of Aban ibn Abi Ayyash, whom al-Saduq never came down harshly on either but rather extracted finer details of theology from.

    I have no idea why an intelligent brother such as yourself would EVER want to believe this Hadeeth, it's either the whims and desires of Muqaatil or the result of someone's memory lapsing. It's like if I found an authentic narration stating that the Earth was flat, I would not go around promoting it. Or a narration saying Musa (AS) was the successor of Asif ibn Barkhiyyah.

  10. SubHanallaah,

    I don't have an issue with this narration, so why would I want to find other saheeh khabar to list this. As I have said already, this is the most details account of the Prophets and their successors, HENCE why I narrated this hadeeth.

    So, now I should do the legwork for you and find you akhbaar that go in line with this? Since you seem as if you are "in tune" with our books as you make it seem, find me a khabar with a saheeh isnaad that goes against this.

    You are using bad qiyaas brother. Just because he accepts the 17,000 hadeeth, which the whole of the Taa'ifah did, doesn't mean he made a mistake about this. By that logic, you should reject the whole book `Itiqaadaat Al-Imaamiyyah since he made a mistake on there.

    I don't think you know about Al-Sadooq's books too much, he rarely if ever talks, and if he talks, it holds weight. So for him to get out of his way to say the khabar is SaheeH with a qawee isnaad means something.

    Bad Qiyaas again with Abaan, since he never said a hadeeth is saheeh with abaan in there. Mufeed rejects Abaan in his TaSaHeeH al-`Itiqaadaat in the last section of "fee aHaadeeth al-mukhtalif". Just because Al-Sadooq mentions Abaan in his book doesn't mean he takes from him. Abaan is a known liar throughout our Taa'ifah from the classical scholars to the contemporary.

    Once again bad Qiyaas with the earth being flat. First off, I am not bin Baaz, second it is a clear contradiction of the Qur'aan, third contradicts sciences, and we have no khabar like this alHamdulillaah.

    So once again, I request your to find me a khabar with a saheeh isnaad that lists the prophets and awSiyaa' that contradiction this. I am not going to do the legwork for you.

  11. Subhan Allah Brother, I recommend you do less speculation and instead confirm with me your speculations before airing them. I am very familiar with al-Saduq's works and own every one (extant and published) of them even the ones which are seen as dubious attributed to him.

    To quote from a narrator in your treatise on the doctrines of the Shi'a is a very good indication of accepting the Rawis. al-'Itiqadat is not like other works rather it is the doctrines al-Saduq (AR) found acceptable and the supporting proofs of such. Abaan secondly is not a known liar once more, in fact al-Tusi merely dismisses him as Dhaeef and Ibn al-Ghada'iri is the source for accusing Abaan of lying, and Ibn al-Ghada'iri is hardly known for being the most reliable source of the Imamiyyah.

    It wasn't Qiyaas, a term you clearly are throwing around like currency, rather it was an example. One that served its purpose too. As you eventually conceded you would reject it due to:

    a) Contradiction of the Qur'aan
    b) Contradiction to science.

    Alhamdulillah, I'm glad you take science into consideration. Do you accept the Science of Historicity and Historical Criticism? If so how could you accept that 'Eesa (AS) appointed a successor after his acension who was succeeded by Nabi Yahya (AS) when all accounts illustrate this to be false.

    As for myself reject 'Itiqadat, yes I am not someone who does blind taqleed of al-Saduq alHamdulillah, rather I affirm his mistakes like in the case of this khabar narrated by the Batri Mujasimite Muqaatil ibn Sulayman, a weak narrator.

  12. Yahya bin Zakariyya(as) was a PROPHET:
    فَنَادَتْهُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَهُوَ قَائِمٌ يُصَلِّي فِي الْمِحْرَابِ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يُبَشِّرُكَ بِيَحْيَىٰ مُصَدِّقًا بِكَلِمَةٍ مِنَ اللَّهِ وَسَيِّدًا وَحَصُورًا وَنَبِيًّا مِنَ الصَّالِحِينَ

    Akhi Nader do you say that there was a Prophet before Nabi Muhammad(صل على وسلم) and after 'Isa(صل على وسلم)?

  13. Also, notice how the Quran always mentions Yahya (صل على وسلم) before 'Isa (صل على وسلم)

    Is not that enough proof for you?

  14. Brother if you have Al-Durur Al-Najafiyyah by Yoosuf Al-BaHraanee, he goes through this part of YaHya bin Zakariyyah coming after `Eesa bin Maryam. This is a very long so I can't paste it all, it is about 8 pages long.

    - Al-BaHraanee, Al-Durur Al-Najafiyyah, vol. 3, ch. 65, pgs. 379 - 387

    Also here is another hadeeth that is found in Kamaal Al-Deen that shows that it was `Eesa then Sham`oon then YaHya.

    بعد أن توفاه ع فلما أراد أن يرفعه أوحى إليه أن يستودع نور الله و حكمته و علم كتابه شمعون بن حمون الصفا خليفته على المؤمنين ففعل ذلك فلم يزل شمعون يقوم بأمر الله عز و جل و يحتذي بجميع مقال عيسى ع في قومه من بني إسرائيل و يجاهد الكفار فمن أطاعه و آمن به و بما جاء به كان مؤمنا و من جحده و عصاه كان كافرا حتى استخلص ربنا تبارك و تعالى و بعث في عباده نبيا من الصالحين و هو يحيى بن زكريا

    Al-Sadooq, Kamaal Al-Deen, vol. 1, ch. 22, pg. 223, hadeeth # 20

  15. Also look at this verse, YaHya got his Prophethood at a very young age.

    [5:12]يَايَحْيىَ‏ خُذِ الْكِتَابَ بِقُوَّةٍ وَ ءَاتَيْنَهُ الحُْكْمَ صَبِيًّا

  16. Sorry that verse is actually 19:12, not 5:12. Sorry typo

    يَايَحْيىَ‏ خُذِ الْكِتَابَ بِقُوَّةٍ وَ ءَاتَيْنَهُ الحُْكْمَ صَبِيًّا
    [19.12] O Yahya! take hold of the Book with strength, and We granted him wisdom while yet a child

  17. Salaam 'Alaikum,

    Unfortunately I only have al-Kashkul and Hada'iq al-Nadhira of Shaykh al-Bahrani (AR) at my disposal. However, one must bare in mind that al-Bahrani was one prone to accept ahadith very very easily, being a light moderate Akhbari with certain Usuli tendencies.

    'Eesa was also granted the gift of commission from his birth, yet what one finds is that reliable secular history such as Josephus records that Nabi Yahya (AS) was killed long before the event of the Crucifixion which people associated with Nabi 'Eesa (AS). Therefore, unless I assume that Yahya (AS) went into a form of occultation then returned, I cannot accept the riwayah. Plus I reject Muqaatil the Batri anyway, so I am being quite consistent.

  18. Wa `Alaykum Assalaam,

    Yes, no dobut Al-BaHraanee was an akhbaaree, a moderate one at that. But he answers all the questions and narrates every single hadeeth for and against this khabar, if you get a chance you should look at that book. Out of this hadeeth he highlights this portion, which one came first `Eesa or YaHya.

  19. I have seemed to have made a mistake, the quote I posted in the blog post, is not talking about that particular hadeeth mention, but instead talking about what was coming after which was the succession of Wilaayah after the Prophet (SAWAS)

    وَ قَدْ وَرَدَتِ الْأَخْبَارُ الصَّحِيحَةُ بِالْأَسَانِيدِ الْقَوِيَّةِ

    ^^ This quote wasn't talking the hadeeth that is posted, but was talking about what would come later.

    I got confused because if Al-Sadooq talks after a narration it is in regards to the previous hadeeth, and NOT of the hadeeth to come.

    I am sorry for that mistake. May Allaah (SWT) forgive me.

  20. Salaam Nader, by quoting that verse, you have just proved that this narration cannot be fully correct.
    Examine the verse you quoted with these:
    فَتَقَبَّلَهَا رَبُّهَا بِقَبُولٍ حَسَنٍ وَأَنْبَتَهَا نَبَاتًا حَسَنًا وَكَفَّلَهَا زَكَرِيَّا ۖ كُلَّمَا دَخَلَ عَلَيْهَا زَكَرِيَّا الْمِحْرَابَ وَجَدَ عِنْدَهَا رِزْقًا ۖ قَالَ يَا مَرْيَمُ أَنَّىٰ لَكِ هَٰذَا ۖ قَالَتْ هُوَ مِنْ عِنْدِ اللَّهِ ۖ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَرْزُقُ مَنْ يَشَاءُ بِغَيْرِ حِسَابٍ
    هُنَالِكَ دَعَا زَكَرِيَّا رَبَّهُ ۖ قَالَ رَبِّ هَبْ لِي مِنْ لَدُنْكَ ذُرِّيَّةً طَيِّبَةً ۖ إِنَّكَ سَمِيعُ الدُّعَاءِ
    فَنَادَتْهُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَهُوَ قَائِمٌ يُصَلِّي فِي الْمِحْرَابِ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يُبَشِّرُكَ بِيَحْيَىٰ مُصَدِّقًا بِكَلِمَةٍ مِنَ اللَّهِ وَسَيِّدًا وَحَصُورًا وَنَبِيًّا مِنَ الصَّالِحِينَ

    Brother think about these verses.
    1) Zakariyya took care of Maryam when she was young and asked Allah سبحانه وتعلى to give him a son while he was raising her.
    2) Then Maryam when off on her own and had 'Esa عليه السلام as evidenced in Sorah Maryam

    So if we are to accept your "hadith" then it would necessarily mean (in light of the Quran) that Zakariya would have had to have Yahya AFTER the death and probably even after the death Sham3oon since Yahya was a boy when he was a Prophet (unless you want to say that Yahya was given wisdom when he was a boy but was not a Prophet until later on?)

    Not to mention the sequencing issue, because Allah(swt) talks about Yahya before 'Isa in both Surah Ale 'Emran and Surah alBaqarah.

  21. Wa `Alaykum Assalaam,

    The order of the Qur'aan isn't relevant. Look at this verse of the Qur'aan

    [6:85] وَزَكَرِيَّا وَيَحْيَى وَعِيسَى وَإِلْيَاسَ كُلٌّ مِّنَ الصَّالِحِينَ

    Do you believe that Iliyaas came after `Eessa?

  22. Assalaamu 'Alaykum,

    Another thing I noticed is that the Qur'aan is not in order many times when regarding Prophets. For instance, we see that the Qur'aan says this:

    [6:86]واسماعيل واليسع ويونس ولوطا وكلا فضلنا علي

    [6:85]...داوود وسليمان وايوب ويوسف وموسي وهارون وكذلك نجزي المحسنين

    LooT (AS) was at the time of Ibraaheem (AS), while Yoonus (AS) was WAY after Ibraaheem (AS) which makes LooT (AS) come before Yoonus (AS), but you see this verse puts LooT (AS) after Yoonus (AS). Also, Moosa (AS) and Haaroon (AS) were before Daawood (AS) and Sulaymaan (AS), but in the verse they are said after. This alone should show that the Qur'aan doesn't put the Prophets (AS) in any order.

  23. I'm surprised you have cited this. In fact in my partial translation of Saduq's father's book, al-Imama wa 't-Tabsira, I have purposely left out this narration (which occurs around the beginning). There is the noted possible anachronism about the list of names, the deviancy of Muqatil b. Sulayman who is noted not only for his tajsimi beliefs but also his reliance on the reports of Jews and Christians, but also something you seem not to have noticed which is the impossibility of al-Hasan b. Mahbub having narrated from Muqatil. al-Hasan b. Mahbub died in 224, age 57, meaning he'd have been born around 167 hijri. However, Muqatil died in 150. So it would not be possible based on this for him to have heard it from him.

  24. After reading a littl more on the date of Muqaatil bin Sulaymaan, it seems as he did die in the year 150 AH.

    - Al-Mizzee, Tahdheeb Al-Kamaal, vol. 28, pg. 450, person # 6161
    - Ibn Hajr, Taqreeb Al-Tahdheeb, pg. 545, person # 6868

    And yes, it is known that Al-Hasan bin MaHboob died in the year 224 AH. Where did you get that he died at the age of 57? I thought he died 75 years old. Even him dying at the age of 75, him being 1 years old when Muqaatil died is an issue.

    But since I reject the hadeeth of Al-Hasan bin MaHboob narrating directly from Aboo Hamzah Al-Thumaalee, and I call that mursal. Since both Aboo Hamzah Al-Thumaalee and Muqaatil bin Sulaymaan both died around the same time, this would make this hadeeth da`eef due to it being mursal.

    Where did you get that Al-MaHboob lived for 57 years?

    Here are the sources that say that Al-Hasan bin MaHboob died in the year 224 at the age of 75.

    مات سنة أربع و عشرين و مائتين عن خمس و سبعين سنة.
    - Ibn Dawood, Rijaal, pg. 116, person # 449

    So by that, it seems as there needs to be people in between Muqaatil and Al-Hasan bin MaHboob, thus making this hadeeth da`eef because of mursal. Thank you for that Mac!

    I stand corrected.

    Wallaahu A`lim.

  25. I have made a post correcting my error.


  26. Ah, I think I must have just read the numbers wrong (reversed them). Like you said though, even at 1 year old it's just too young to be a credible route of transmission by itself.

  27. Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.

    I am curious to know what the Shia say of Khidr, alaihi asalaam. Is he considered to be a prophet by your scholars, and do your folk have narrations regarding his being one of the sons of Adam (Ibn Adam) alahi salam, and if so which one?

    Jazak Allahu Khair

  28. Wa `Alaykumassalaam,

    Khidr (AS) is not considered a prophet but a scholar in Islam. There is nothing in the Qur'aan to suggest he (AS) is a prophet, plus, in our hadeeth it explicitly states he is a scholar.

    Assalaamu `Alaykum